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Showing posts with label Natural Born Status. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Natural Born Status. Show all posts

Wednesday, April 21, 2010

Arizona Wants Obama Birth Certificate for 2012 Election

The Arizona House of Representatives approved a measure that will require Barack Obama to present his birth certificate before being on the Arizona ballot in 2012. Now the Senate must approve the bill before it becomes law. The vote was 31-29, with four Republicans voting no with all of the Democrats. Arizona will not only be asking only for Obama's birth certificate. All presidential candidates will have to provide a birth certificate that proves natural born status. What is it that makes a Democrat or a Republican ignore a Constitutional mandate? I just don't get it. I really do not get it.



I have to assume that Arizona wants the "long form birth certificate" that contains the doctor signature, name of the hospital and cannot be dispensed unless the baby is actually born on Hawaiian soil. The birth certificate that the Obama campaign provided during the 2008 election "could" be issued to anyone requesting a Hawaiian birth certificate, if the time requirements are met.

To state Democratic Rep. Krysten Sinema, this law makes Arizona "the laughing stock of the nation," but Republican state Rep. Cecil Ash says he does not doubt Obama's citizenship but he supports the measure because it could help end doubt. Sinema's foolish remark shows where are in this country today. We are at a place where the law is ignored far too often in critical areas.

No one with any capacity for reasonable thought should object to a "proper" birth certificate for any one in the Oval Office.  The objections and attacks make no sense unless someone is trying to hide something. I hope all states will adopt this policy. It is a law that should have been in place for years and years.

Wednesday, March 17, 2010

Hawaii to Ignore Obama Birth Certificate Requests: Requesters Restricted from Government Records for Two Years

The State of Hawaii is a tad tired of requests for proof that Barack Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States. They are considering a law to ignore your requests. If the legislation passes, SB2937, you will be declared a "vexatious requester" and your rights to government records will be restricted for two years!

Hawaii State Republican Congresswoman, Cynthia Thielen asks:

Do we really want to be known internationally as the Legislature that block any inquiries into where President Obama was born. When people want to get more information, the way to fuel that fire is to say, 'We're now going to draw down a veil of secrecy."
An attorney present suggested rather than passing a bill, they simply honor the request from each person once, and refuse all subsequent requests from that person.

Two officials of Hawaii have "verified" Obama's original birth certificate, although copies of it have not been released. Government has seen it, you don't need to.


Sunday, March 7, 2010

Chanise Foxx Created False Obama Birth Certificate? Divorah Adler Created False Obama Birth Certificate?

 by Maggie Thornton @ Maggie's Notebook

As I understand the report, a story surfaced on FreeRepublic this morning Chanisse Foxx says she helped an Obama staffer DNC consultant, Divorah Adler (Devorah Adler) create a fake birth certificate for use in the FactCheck story about the authenticity of the soon-to-be president's Hawaiian birth certificate. Chanise Foxx put her story on FreeRepublic this morning, and according to another blogger, Citizen Wells, the site crashed and the story disappeared. Is it a ruse? More as details are available. See updates below.


No guarantees this is the cert Foxx is referring to
Graphic from Fight the Smears (pro-Obama)

Citizen Wells put the story up on March 6th at 10:13 PM EST and updated today at 10:06 AM EST. At the time of the update, CW said FreeRepublic was still down. This from CitizenWells:
“My name is Chanise Foxx. I work at a office supply store in Kenwood, IL. After nearly 3 years of silence and death threats to me and my family to stay quiet, I am compelled to come forward and tell the world my secret.
“I helped Obama campaign staffer Divorah Adler create a fake birth certificate for use in the famous Fact Check story to prove the world of Obama’s birth in the 2008 election. Divorah approached me in early 2007 and held onto the birth certificate until she released it in August 2008.

“As I’ve been making fake IDs part-time for local college students for about eight years now, faking a birth certificate was actually quite easy. Our first step was to get our hands on someone else’s birth certificate from Hawaii. We then created the stationary to match.


“Next, we had to create an embossed stamp and rubber signature stamp for Hawaiian officials. With the help of a high-resolution scanner at the store, I did most of my work at night when the place was vacant…””
 
Note that Foxx, if she is real, and as Big Dog said, is still alive, she and her family have had death threats. Citizen Wells has info up about Devorah (Divorah) Adler and quotes Wikipedia: "Devorah Adler is a political consultant and opposition research specialist for the Democratic National Committee.... Read more at Citizen Wells. We'll see where this story goes, and I'll be updating as will the entire conservative blogosphere.

Update 3-7-10:

A Devorah R. Adler is shown as a congressional staffer for the years March 2001 through April 2005.
There is a Devorah Adler on Facebook, with current city listed as Washington, D.C. A quick tour through her "friends" shows Joshua DuBois, Obama's "pastor-in-chief" as TIME magazine put it, and several others identifying as members of the DNC and Obama for America.

Wednesday, October 28, 2009

Liz Wiehl Obama Natural Born Status: Congress Investigated Obama Natural Born Status

Last night, attorney Liz Wiehl appeared on Bill O'Reilly's The Factor. The discussion was about attorney Orly Taitz' $20,000 fine for a frivolous lawsuit seeking to have Barack Obama's long-form birth certificate released. I was shocked to hear Wiehl say that Congress has "investigated" Barack Obama's natural born status. I'm asking when, and who, investigated, where is the report, and how does Wiehl know this? See video below.


Liz Wiehl


She makes other irresponsible claims about "birthers" that she does not back up, and O'Reilly is clueless in his constant reminders that Obama is natural born - again with nothing to back it up. When O'Reilly tells his audience "we" have investigated, and Obama is natural born citizen - I want to smack him. He says "we" have seen the birth certificate, but he never engages in a full discussion of what is really known or not known. Let's have that full discussion, Bill.

I do not believe Bill O'Reilly has seen Obama's long-form birth certificate, and I certainly do not believe Congress has investigated. If someone knows differently I hope they come forward.

You'll see in the video below that O'Reilly asks all the wrong questions. Notice that this conversation asserts that the Obama administration loves the focus on the birth certificate. The problem is, this should have been solved before there was an Obama administration - an arrogant administration, according to O'Reilly.

The questions should be: Who has seen Obama's long-form birth certificate? Why has Obama not released his long-form birth certificate? Why does Congress not always vet a presidential candidate, as they did John McCain?







 
Bill O'Reilly Obama Natural Born Status

Monday, August 24, 2009

Trent Franks Lawsuit: Trent Franks Obama Birth Certificate?

A report comes today that Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ) is considering filing a lawsuit to force Barack Obama to make his long form birth certificate public.

Trent Franks

Glenn Thrush at Politico.com brings us this good news. Oops...wait, there's an update. Dang! Wouldn't you know? A spokesman for Franks says Franks considered this before the November 2008 elections but now believes the refusal of the courts to deal with the birth certificate issue previously, has rendered any further action "moot."

 All of you idiots out there wasting breath calling me a "birther," take note: when a conservative president comes along and there is no way to know whether or he or she is a natural born citizen, you will want it proven...that is unless you...being that you are a certified idiot, want Arnold or any other naturalized citizen...or no kind of citizen at all, to sit in the Oval Office.

 Listen folks, this is exactly what should happen, and Congress should have done it en masse when the question was first raised. What is it about Barack Obama that makes your brain turn to jelly. The Constitution says he must be natural born and the reasons for this are obvious. Bill O'Reilly hear this. You are one of the idiots.

If you believe that the Hawaiian government showed you a copy of Obama's long form birth certificate, you are wrong. Obama has not given permission to release it to anyone or show it to anyone, according to officials in Hawaii, and if he did, you would be on the bottom of the list. Drop the smug imperialism...please, it is extraordinarily annoying. I do not know whether President Obama is a natural born citizen, and neither does anyone else. I doubt that he is because he will not release the proof, and releasing a birth certificate is no big deal unless you do not have one. Congress should have dealt with this, as they did with John McCain's birth status. For all the non-birthers out there, do you have anything intelligent to say to this? Congress should have dealt with it - as they did John McCain. What say you?

What a shame that this country has these questions. If Barack Obama did not have this hanging over his head, he would be much better off. If our leaders...any one of them was doing his or her job, there would not be this chatter. To Rep. Franks: For gosh sakes do it! And see if you cannot get others in Congress to join you. Think about how Congress has allowed this to happen.

If you thought about it in the Summer and Fall of 2008 - nothing has changed except that the man now leads this country. Anyone denying that action must be taken, needs to give a good answer why. The problem for you is, you have no good answer. As I watched Marine veteran David Hedrick, speak at Rep. Brian Baird's Townhall, and voice so eloquently - in a way that Barack Obama could never match, I saw the spirit that made America great. I watched the conservatives cheer and applaud Mr. Hedrick, while the majority of the attendees sat still and silent in their seats, willing to let Baird call Hedrick and all of us like him, a "brown shirt," willing to be satisfied with their Congressman telling them he would "let them keep their health insurance."

What kind of ignorance does it take to keep your butt in the chair when your liberty is under assault from all directions? Others talking and wondering: ChicagoRay: Rep. Trent Franks Joins Demand for Eligibility Proof The Snooper Report: Obama Birth Certificate Fruitloop Ft. Hard Knox: Barack Obama Kenyan Birth Certificate at Coast Province General Hospital

Thursday, August 13, 2009

Obama Eligibility Cover-Up: MSM Hushes Talkers on POTUS Eligibility Updated

Canada Free Press has revealed the nature of the press blackout on President Obama's eligibility this week. Unfortunately, names and networks are not named. Nevertheless, the information is compelling and since CanadaFreePress says they are in possession of the identities we need to know about, we can hold out hope that there sources will become known. See update below. Note that CPF makes it clear, several times, that more than one anchor, more than one talkshow host, more than one "on-air-talent" was threatened and warned not to talk about Barack Obama's eligibility to be President. The warning extended to guests appearing on news programs and talkshows. The graphic below may be difficult to read. Here's the translation, then the article (see author bios after):

Obama Eligibility Cover-up
"A few moments later, I got a call from the top guy, the seniou executive produce [redacted],. It was not a great conversation. Unless I agreed in advance that this topic would not come out of my mouth, I would not go on..." "I asked what would happen in that case. He told me it would not be good and many phone calls would be made..." "the idea that shomehow some call would be made to someone that would frighten me..." "But the threat was weird. As you can imagine, I don't really respond all that well to threats..." -National Talk Show Host December 10, 2008
*****
Canada Free Press by Douglas Hagmann and Judi McLeon Tuesday, August 4, 2009

Now, we potentially face a new constitutional crisis stemming from the refusal of Barack Hussein Obama to produce a one-page document that would confirm his eligibility to hold the highest office in the land. Eligibility to hold office is not a “fringe” matter, but a core constitutional issue that lies at the very heart of a growing controversy.

Although we do not have the birth certificate or proof of ineligibility, the Northeast Intelligence Network and Canada Free Press have documentation of a cover-up relating to the issue of Obama’s eligibility to hold office. The proof we possess not only exposes a well orchestrated cover-up, but also provides critical insight into why the topic of Obama’s eligibility has failed to gain traction in the corporate media.

The Northeast Intelligence Network and Canada Free Press are in possession of extremely sensitive investigative documents, including a stunning written admission by a nationally known talk show host stating that he was threatened with his career – or worse - should he talk about the issue of Barack Hussein Obama’s birth records to a national audience. This document was obtained on December 10, 2008, and provides explicit detail of a “gag order” imposed on this host before and immediately following the national election last November. After receiving and authenticating the document, US based veteran private investigator Douglas J. Hagmann opened a full scale investigation into the media blackout, with specific emphasis on tracing the blackout origins to those issuing them. This investigation was conducted in conjunction with Judi McLeod, founding editor of Canada Free Press and Brian Thompson, CFP Information Technology chief following a meeting near Toronto, Ontario last December. At that meeting, it was decided to keep the existence of the document secret until additional evidence could be obtained. Today, after an extensive eight month investigation, the Northeast Intelligence Network and Canada Free Press are breaking their silence and revealing explosive information about a widespread cover-up that began at the earliest stages of the Obama presidential campaign. The cover-up traces back to some of the most powerful and influential people in the U.S. and continues today.

Summary of the Evidence

As noted above, we are in possession of a written account by a well known national talk show host who details how he was prohibited to discuss the controversy of Barack Hussein Obama’s eligibility as president of the United States. This signed document cites exact dates and times when he was forbidden to discuss any aspect of the birth certificate controversy, and includes direct references to the individuals responsible for such prohibitions. Further, his statement identifies the individuals who originated the orders and their positions, and confirms that failure to adhere to the order would likely end his career in that industry. He also confirms that other, less specific but more menacing threats were implied during conversations with those making the subject off limits. Although we possess the original document containing the name and contact information of the talk show host, we have decided not to publish his name or network affiliation at this time. Based on the correspondence from this individual and respecting the nature of the threats to him personally and professionally, it is our decision to allow him to enjoy anonymity until such time as he decides to reveal the facts himself at a time of his choosing. From multiple interviews conducted within the last eight months, we have obtained information from other sources, independent of the above, who have also been instructed to avoid any discussion of the birth certificate issue at all costs, to wit:

The account of an administrative assistant employed in New York City by a cable network news station who provided significant, detailed information of a 2008 meeting between the top network executive and four-(4) well-known news anchors. This source confirmed that she drafted the memo to the various hosts to notify them of the date, time and location of this high-level meeting at the request of the network’s top executive. Present at this meeting, she verified that the network official issued “warnings” to thepersonalities “to avoid any on-air discussion of the birth place, eligibility, and news accounts of litigation compelling [Barack Hussein] Obama to produce a legitimate copy of his birth certificate.” She stated that the network executive had her arrange the conference immediately following a meeting “between [the network executive] and an attorney closely associated with candidate Obama who was acting on his behalf.” The statement of a corporate secretary for a major news network confirming the existence of a one-page inter-office memo, bearing the markings “confidential” and “not for dissemination,” addressed and distributed to news anchors and on-air talent” that specifically instructed the recipients to avoid any discussion pertaining to the Obama birth certificate controversy. The memo was written and distributed in October 2008, and specifically instructed on-air talent to “advise guests, as necessary, to refrain from citing any news story, legal proceedings, Internet ‘blogs’ or other sources that pertain to the ongoing eligibility controversy of future President Barack Obama.” As outlined above, our Investigation has uncovered both direct and indirect evidence of threats being made against some of the nation’s top radio and television personalities, which would explain some giving this topic mere lip service. As one source interviewed during the course of this investigation stated, “I’ve got a careerand family think about.” Although no one should be surprised over the manipulation of the news, the nature of this manipulation, and the extent of the threats against journalists, should shock even the most well grounded. Any reasonable person must question the motivation of the media moguls. The individuals who have – and continue to threaten talk show hosts, news anchors, and others are the top people. We are not talking about mid or upper level management – this is from the very top in all cases. If there is nothing to the birth certificate issue and the question of eligibility, why the secrecy?

Author bios:

Douglas Hagmann, founder & director of the Northeast Intelligence Network, and a multi-state licensed private investigative agency. Doug began using his investigative skills and training to fight terrorism and increase public awareness through his website.

Older articles by Doug Hagmann

Judi McLeod is an award-winning journalist with 30 years experience in the print media. A former Toronto Sun columnist, she also worked for the Kingston Whig Standard. Her work has appeared on Rush Limbaugh, Newsmax.com, Drudge Report, Foxnews.com, and Glenn Beck.

Older articles by Judi McLeod

End Canada Free Press Article

Update 8-14-09:

I received an email from my very savvy reader, Carolyne at TraveLight, with a follow-up post by Robert Jay March. Mr. March says this:

In that my own sources have told me that Jeffrey Immelt has imposed such a blackout at NBC and MSNBC due to his desire to protect and increase G.E.'s Defense Contracts, I contacted the authors and asked the following question: "I do not expect you to compromise your source, but can you say that the network you refer to in your story is not NBC/MSNBC?"
Read Hagmann's answer at The March Report (look to the right hand column, titled Editorial Column Mass-Media Coverup Exposed).

Friday, January 2, 2009

Obama's Mother's Divorce from Obama Sr. - Papers Available, kinda sorta

Below is the next edition of the Obama-natural-born-status. I do not know what's going on here. I know nothing about Ed at PlainsRadio.com, I know nothing about his attorney. InvestigatingObama has been following and dissecting this venture. When you visit the website, check out the comments, and then the sidebar which precisely lays out why he and others believe that Barack Hussein Obama II is not a natural born citizen. You can see from the comments that the facts are confusing, no matter where they lead or how they are interpreted. I will say this: The people closely following this and giving up their time to document each step along the way should be lauded, not lambasted. The lastest pro-Obama argument in the comment section: Obama is natural born and that's certain because the State of Illinois qualified and cleared him, (paraphrasing) is just too rich. You can read it and more at InvestigatingObama. Obama may be a natural born citizen, but some, like InvestigatingObama, believe they have well-explained why this is not possible - but the one thing we know is that Obama refuses to clear up the issue. He is hiding his birth certificate, and paying thousands to fight its reveal. You know folks, this just isn't natural.He cannot even say he has proven the issue because the birth certificate he placed on his website is obviously fraudulent, but if not fraudulent, then insufficient, as it would be a version that proves nothing, including an actual birth place. Note that there is more. Visit America's Right, the website that broke the initial story, for information about Hollister v. Soetoro. Here's the latest. Please visit InvestigatingObama for ALL the details. Just click on the documents below to enlarge. There are more than a few mysteries here. As Arlen at InvestigatingObama said:

And, to anyone actually offended by how nutty this all appears to be, just relax and have a sense of humor -- this is just the United States presidency after all
*****
Obama Divorce Papers, via PlainsRadio.com - updating as it goes by Arlen Williams at InvestigatingObama

The Barack Hussein Obama Sr. / Stanley Ann divorce papers are in the possession of Ed Hale and PlainsRadio.com.

Investigating Obama will likely be making numerous updates within this post, as the afternoon and evening proceed. You might expect some bad spelling, typos, and weird grammar. And, to anyone actually offended by how nutty this all appears to be, just relax and have a sense of humor -- this is just the United States presidency after all. I.O. reports; you decide, hide, or roller-coaster ride. (Ed and Caren Hale, pictured.)

2:25pm CT - Ed Hale has his FedEx package and has made sure that among others, attorney, Stephen Pidgeon is getting a copy. PlainsRadio.com is to post it for public view at 8pm CT, tonight. Ed and others will be 'net audio-wise, too, as previously mentioned.

3:38pm CT - I.O. has gained a pre-release copy of image files of the divorce papers. (BTW, these are the previously unreleased Obama divorce papers, not the Soetoro divorce papers, for any who are still wondering.) I will be examining them over the next few minutes, but will withhold essential information as to how it pertains to BHO II until probably shortly before 8pm, as agreed with Plains Radio.

4:51pm CT - Someone I.O. is not naming has suggested listening to The Shags, while waiting for the Plains Radio broadcast. Hm. And I.O. confesses it would not have thought of that, but loves you all, too.

5:02pm CT - While, as stated, I will not yet divulge whether or not the divorce decree refers to the citizenship of Barack Obama (a.k.a., "The Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers," as FReeper, Rodney Dangerfield has named him) I will say that this document is significant and do suggest listening to Plains Radio, tonight.

6:10pm CT - Ed Hale is on PlainsRadio live, now. He is proclaiming he has new information (that is beyond me at this point, but don't let that get you down) but will not state yet, what it is. He is exhuberant indeed. Go ahead and listen, if you can. He says they can prove now, that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. That is what he is saying. I'm just hearing. ;-)

6:23pm CT - Ed won't say what exactly he is speaking of, but he believes that one piece of information on the document has lead to further information. He also reports that four pages of the divorce decree information are missing and that he is working with his PI in Hawaii to get them. Also, that the Globe will be reporting further and interviewing him. (Remember, it was National Enquirer that found out about John Edwards.) And now, my PlainsRadio audio feed has gone out.

6:30pm CT - I got the audio back. Ed Hale is convinced he can prove Obama was born in Kenya, with the further, undisclosed evidence. I believe he is convinced.

6:56pm CT - It is the original Hawaiian birth certificate of BHO II that Ed believes he can somehow fish out of the Pacific islands. He purports it can be obtained with further work on the ground, now that some bit of information in this divorce decree has been discovered: a different name for Stanley Ann is listed there? I'll have to take another look at those documents.... And, whoever is on the ground may want to start eating out of vending machines and wearing kevlar -- just kidding about that, aren't I?

7:18pm CT - Okay, Mr. Hale says the birth certificate he seeks is not the Hawaiian vault copy.

7:46pm CT - As for names, I see names on the divorce decree. Stanley Ann is listed in a standard and consistent way. So are both B.H.O's I and II. It would s-e-e-e-m that Hale is referring to another name/person. And here, it isn't even 8:00, yet.

8:07pm CT - Here are the image files of the divorce decree, from Plains Radio. You may enlarge each one with a click. As you see, there are no pages marked 8 through 11. Just 1 through 7, plus 12.
Hale says that the "D." in Stanley Ann (Dunham) Obama's name is significant of something. I wouldn't know what, except for her maiden name. You may also note that BHO II is mentioned in two places and place of birth is not mentioned. However... This is a court declaration that BHO II is in fact the son of BHO I as has been "naturally" assumed. That means that Barack Obama is constitutionally disqualified from being U.S. President, as this Web log has repeatedly explained and has documented -- along with numerous lawyers, historians, and thoughtful Web surfers. 8:28pm CT - Obama challenging lawyer, Stephen Pidgeon is on Plains Radio, now. His perspective will be quite interesting. 8:28pm CT - Attorney Pidgeon is essentially giving Ed Hale his legal assistance, on the air. Interesting times again, at Plains Radio. Pidgeon explains how BHO II is not a natural born citizen, if born abroad. Further, he explains how Obama's online "Certificate of Live Birth" (COLB) has been altered and in that way (among others, potentially) is invalid. Then, he explains how Hawaii COLB's are not birth certificates of the kind which are required for fundamental identification. Then, he explains how it is admitted knowledge that Stanley Ann's second husband, Lolo Soetoro adopted Barack, whose name was changed to Barry Soetoro and who was registered in an Indonesian elementary school as an Indonesian citizen. After this, the discussion gets into the question of whether Barack Obama might be guilty of criminal fraud, if he were born in another nation. 8:50pm CT - Pidgeon now explains once more how BHO I passed along U.K. citizenship to BHO II and how that disqualifies BHO II from being U.S. President (not a natural born Citizen of America, clearly a U.K citizen). Ed underscores this. Good for Ed. Nevermind the letter "D." for Dunham. Ed has the the letter from John Jay going for the cause. "This program is brought to you by the letter, Jay." 9:15pm CT - Now, Pidgeon explains how becoming an Indonesian citizen voids the status of natural born Citizen, requiring naturalization, if one is to then become an American citizen, again. And now, the discussion goes to this peculiar, new working assumption of Ed Hale has that there is a immigration birth certificate (perhaps my term) for BHO II on file in America and how to get a copy. 9:26pm CT - Now, Pidgeon discusses the natural born Citizen issue per the foreign father further... friends. There is a difference between controlling authority (law and precedent) and persuasive authority (original intent and meaning, informed by such things as contemporaneous documentation). Pidgeon discusses how the "hard" (my word) British citizenship of BHO II brings weight in terms of controlling authority, as well as the Donofrio doctrine of what Pidgeon refers to as persuasive authority. My personal take as a part-time student of history: the courts should/must defer to hard evidence of persuasive authority in such an instance as this, in order to maintain intellectual/epistemological honesty, though Pidgeon's point is hard-core clear, too. 9:46pm CT - Now, a caller's question is the effect of Obama potentially having an Indonesian student visa, when a college student and later. Also, did Obama have an American passport, when he travelled back to Indonesia, in 1981? Can this be discovered? [Yes, can this be discovered, or can it be certified that one does not exist? Can an Indonesian passport be discovered? Not many days left....] Other callers are asking other questions. Pidgeon is very informative. 9:50pm CT - Pidgeon reminds us that the Wrotnowski case is still "pending" and procedurally alive. The program closes, to the synthesized drum and bugle core music of the Hales' Lion's Den. It should become available as a streaming archive on the plainsradio.com site. Stephen Pidgeon is to revisit Plains Radio on Monday evening. I am sure that Ed Hale and his Plains Radio compatriots will continue to pursue the immigration birth certificate issue and that we will hear more about it. And now, I will invite you to read further in your humble Investigating Obama and suggest that you look into the article in The Right Side of Life, "Dunham v. Obama: Document Confirms Fatherhood, FactCheck.org, UK-Kenyan Colonial Law," for a recap of this evening's events, Internet discussion, and documentation. I'm going to read that article for the first time now, myself. I will take at least one more look into comments for this post, too. There have been numerous ones. Feel free to pass along this and other I.O. postings.
Testing e-referrer:

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